"We don't want any taxpayer money to build our Personal Rapid Transit system... just give us the rights-of-way."
Sounds good, right? Conventional transit is costly to build and maintain... and at a time when governments at all levels are cutting budgets. ... and these nice PRT fellows are offering a much-needed public transit system... for free!
Caution; Any city that gives their right-of-way to the PRT hucksters could be taken to the cleaners.
Here's how;
Once the PRT company is granted the right-of-way, they could turn around and sue the city/state. Why? The PRT company will be in a position to claim they are unable to raise capital to build the pod system because existing transit is subsidized and is therefore unfair competition.
The court could then order the city/state to cease subsidizing its existing transit or agree to pay damages to the pod company and buy back the right-of-way.
Farfetched?
Consider H.F. No. 1366, one of several PRT bills then-Representative, now-pod lobbyist Mark Olson introduced in the MN Legislature in 2004/5 that would establish a commission that would "regulate "transit to provide transit service "exclusive of direct competition from any publicly subsidized transit services". In other words, a commission that would allow only transit that could pay for itself out of the farebox. And since public transit could not be affordable for many riders unless fares were subsidized, it would effectively dismantle existing public transit systems and could prevent planning for future transit expansion.
So the next time a pod huckster tells you he only wants your right of way, hold on to your wallet and count your rings.
More news about the ongoing, worldwide pod boondoggle:
Eric Britton has a some thoughtful posts, a poll and a polite discussion going over at World Streets (here, here and here)
The post with the poll attracted the attention of the handful of PRT aficionados at the Google Transport Innovators forum. Here are selections from the discussion thread titled "Plea to vote for Delhi PRT"...
Peter "PRT Guru" Muller" posted an email he apparently received from Sonal Ahuja, an employee of Capita Symonds which according to the PRT Visions blog is working on PRT for India:
Dear Friends,
Please don't forget to cast your vote and ask your friends to cast one in support of PRT here. It seems to be a biased discussion here and PRT will need your support.
Sonal Ahuja Director International Development, CAPITA SYMONDS Technology Transport and Infrastructure Level 7, 52 Grosvenor Gardens, Belgravia, London, SW1W 0AU, United Kingdom Tel: ----- India Mob: ---- UAE ----
Eric Britton, the Worldstreets survey author, is a green transportation advocate and a fan of a select few advanced technologies. I find him intellectually rigid when it comes to PRT. I would discredit any attempt by Britton to conduct a fair survey. And I think it is fundamentally a BS idea to survey about a PRT application backed by a detailed study using a few teeny bits of explanation written by an anti-PRT guy. Britton isn't interested in any detailed study that picks PRT as the favored alternative. On the Sustrans yahoo group, it was Britton who posted Ken Avidor stuff. That's further discrediting in my book. I'd rather watch Judge Judy, where I can experience a much higher level of discourse.
I thought the request originated with Peter Muller. Eric is not part of the transportation solution, he is part of the problem. He hasn't a clue what should be done, if it is more complicated than a bicycle, and ridicules everything that his little brain cannot cope with.
It is always interesting to have people’s unvarnished views on your work and ethics. Here are a few by some people who felt that I was being unfair to PRT and Pods
Indeed.
I am amused that Steve Raney continues to attack my credibility and suggesting that people who merely quote me can suffer a loss of credibility. Steve Raney, of course was forced to remove an entire page from the ULTra website that attempted to discredit me and other critics who merely mention the fact that ULTra has repeatedly failed to launch their much ballyhooed Heathrow pods (something Raney himself has acknowledged). Geez, BAA Heathrow still has this on their website:
"PRT offers a completely new form of public transport - one that will deliver a fast, efficient service to passengers and bring considerable environmental benefits, saving more than half of the energy used by existing forms of public or private transport. Not only that, it's a world first and we are very much looking forward to launching this to passengers in 2009."
Really! 2009?
As usual, instead responding to criticism by being honest and transparent, PRT promoters react to criticism and bad news by shooting the messenger.
This has been good fun, but Brendan Finn has it right. These PRT enthusiasts are distracting us at a time when we need all our brains and focus for the real stuff. Out they go.
...ending with yet another example of how badly the small number of PRT hucksters are at astroturfing:
(Note on the poll results: It has in the last 24 hours been contaminated by no less than 106 visits from a single Comcast Cable site in Seattle, Washington, United States, with the result that exactly 65 votes have been recorded in favor of PRT as a solution from the one site. Now that’s interesting.)
The most ridiculous PRT system ever conceived has been getting press in Canada, and Australia and Detroit. Detroit is one of the few major cities in the United States without an LRT line. PRT and other gadgetbahn concepts like the very wacky Interstate Traveller get press coverage in Detroit to muddle and misinform the public about what reality-based transit is all about. This week, Detroit Free Press editor Ron Dzwonkowski in a column titled "SkyTran offers Detroit new idea for mass transit" complains about the cost of LRT and concludes with this sentence:
So before this train leaves the station, maybe somebody in the city or region should see whether there isn't a better idea.
Ron Dzwonkowski could have easily Googled Skytran and learned that the Skytran hucksters have been around a long time and their "better idea" is totally ridiculous.
Skytran was first proposed towards the end of the last century. The supposed inventor of Skytran, Douglas Malewicki gave up on his concept years ago and stated his reasons for why he quit working to build Skytran on his website:
Aaaarrrrgghh! Ain't no such animal - yet. It is still just a concept that makes a lot of theoretical sense. It needs money to tear into it properly - a lot.
"Why it hasn't happened yet is mostly my fault. I detest paperwork and details. I can't see myself applying for any government energy or innovation grants because of all the bureaucratic crap that I would be stuck with. If they supplied paperwork bozos along with the grants to take care of their required paperwork, it might be more appealing. I guess I also don't want to deal with all their other silly rules either. If I want to hire all black engineers (and I know a bunch of dam good practical ones), to the exclusion of Hispanics, Women, Polaks, etc. the government won't let me. I start reading the grant application forms and rules and never finish - because I toss it all in the garbage first in disgust. Basically, I'm selfish. I prefer to think and create. I have plenty of other non-hassle projects I can be involved in to feed my brain endorphins or whatever. I am definitely not the right kind of personality to carry this project to fruition in the real world!"
Because of the minuscule vehicle weight, an elevated guideway can be built with minimum materials for less than $1 million per mile and still exceed all static, dynamic and seismic structural criteria. This is much less than the cost of any paved road, rail transit or monorail system simply because the structure is highly specialized to carry 600 pound People Pod vehicles and does not have to safely support the 80,000 pound trucks that share the roads with all automobiles. The light weight per foot of the track design also allows the use of a semi-automated track forming manufacturing robot (much simpler than the Robosaurus machine) that enables a two shift crew to deploy one mile of two way track per day. This can be compared with proposed monorail trains (weighing 100,000 pounds) which require guideways costing well over $40 million per mile and many years to build.
A Phoenix New Times article from March 09, 2000 implies that Skytran is merely a stalking horse used by opponents of mass transit to distract voters and policy makers:
Opponents of a proposed Phoenix mass transit system would like you to picture their own pie-in-the-sky people-mover -- an overhead sky-rail system, where a computerized chauffeur zips you along at 100 mph in your private SkyTran vehicle.
No unnecessary stops. No congested freeways or brown cloud of air pollution. And no sharing a ride with total strangers, some of whom might give you the creeps.
The fare would be about 10 cents a mile.
And the taxpayers' cost to build this futuristic system over the streets of Phoenix?
Absolutely nothing, thanks to private investors whom SkyTran backers say will pay for the whole thing.
One problem. SkyTran is the brain child of an inventor whose biggest accomplishments are a fire-breathing giant robot and a flying beverage can cooler.
That hasn't stopped transit opponents from boosting the project in the hope of derailing the Transit 2000 proposal that will go before voters next week. In recent weeks, on talk shows, in local debates, in letters to the editors of various newspapers and even in the official voters pamphlet, SkyTran is being touted as the ideal alternative to the Valley's planned light rail system.
At this point, however, compared to the painstakingly crafted Transit 2000 plan, SkyTran simply won't fly. The company, based in Southern California, has never built such a complex transportation system. The company, not to mention other firms trying to develop similar personal rapid transit vehicles, has no demonstration projects and no prototypes to showcase. In fact, all it has is a Web site with sci-fi illustrations of how such a system could work. Two-person pods, which resemble the front of an airplane, zoom along elevated monorail tracks, with passengers entering and exiting every half-mile at portals.
Douglas Malewicki is SkyTran's inventor and chief proponent. He has proposed a 1,500-mile system of overhead freeways that would span not only the Valley but the state. And he says he could build it for $1.7 billion. But first, he wants to build a quarter-mile prototype track in Phoenix. He promises to accelerate a SkyTran pod to 130 mph on that short stretch of track.
Malewicki says a Valley company, which he won't name, is exploring using the system to transport its employees to the airport. That project will prove that SkyTran is not some wild idea, but is based on existing technology, combining electricity and magnetic levitation, he says. "We're not real, yet," Malewicki admits.
Although his Web site first identifies Malewicki as a "mildly sane" creature from outer space (complete with an illustration depicting this), his résumé reveals more serious educational and professional qualifications, including a master's degree in aeronautical and astronautical engineering from Stanford University. Malewicki concedes he has no experience in civil engineering or public transportation. But he points to other of his inventions as proof he can deliver the SkyTran system for Phoenix.
Like Robosaurus, a 40-foot-tall, 30-ton, car-eating robot that has entertained spectators at car shows and other events, including drag races at Firebird International Raceway off Interstate 10 south of Phoenix. The robot, which is operated by a human hiding in its head, lifts cars, crushes them between its metal jaws, then spits fire.
Or Canosoarus, a small cylinder that slips over a beverage can to keep it cool, then can be turned into a far-flying variation of a Frisbee later. Some of the inventions that Malewicki had a hand in do involve vehicles, but most are for record-book contests or pure entertainment value, like the Kite Cycle that appeared on the TV show CHiPs and is scheduled to be on an upcoming I Dare You: Ultimate Challenge on UPN.
SkyTran's Web site (www.skytran.net) refers to company "activity" in Arizona, Southern California and the National Park System. But those turn out to be simply proposals to bring the SkyTran system to those areas.
Jerry Spellman thinks it's about time Mesa met the future.
"The future," as seen in generations of TV shows and comic books, is a time when people whisk around modernistic cities in modernistic conveyances without having to worry about traffic jams and bus or train schedules. The future is clean, energy-efficient and cheap. Spellman thinks the future should be now.
That's why the Mesa resident has spent the past decade serving without pay as the Arizona coordinator for Unimodal, a California company promoting a transit system called SkyTran.
"The technology is here. We're finally at the point where we can actually demonstrate it," Spellman said. He believes Mesa would be a great place for that because the city is not yet locked in to its long-range transit options.
Spellman is waiting for Mesa's official answer to a proposal SkyTran floated this spring to build a 25-mile line between the light-rail terminus on Main Street and Williams Gateway Airport in southeast Mesa.
The cost: $225 million.
SkyTran figured Mesa could kick in $150 million from its share of regional transportation funds, and SkyTran would dig up the rest from transit-oriented lines of credit. Spellman said the money is but a fraction of what it would cost to lay light rail along that same route.
But it doesn't look like Mesa is ready to shake hands.
Kyle Jones, chairman of the City Council's transportation and infrastructure committee, said the idea is more "pipe dream" than reality.
"We're always willing to take a look," Jones said. "But . . . we just can't expend money for something that's an unknown. They'll partner with us for a test deal? We just can't gamble with funds that way. People criticize us enough already."
What Spellman is advocating would look right at home either in Disneyland or on The Jetsons.
Bullet-shaped two-passenger vehicles would be suspended from overhead tracks. Instead of riding on wheels or bearings, they would be elevated and propelled by magnetic levitation at speeds up to 100 mph in city, and 150 mph between cities.
About every quarter-mile, there would be a station. Passengers would climb to the boarding platform, pay for their rides, punch in their destinations and jump into waiting cars.
A computer would guide the cars as they merge into the high-speed upper rail and then slow to a stop at the destinations.
Eventually, SkyTran advocates say, a city could be covered with a grid of lines, making it all but unnecessary to use cars for local trips.
"You don't wait like you would at a bus stop or a train station," Spellman said. "The vehicles are sitting there waiting for you. You just walk up and you get in and you go to wherever you want to go that's on the line."
There's nothing new about the concept, which some sources date to the 1930s. Companies have been tinkering with SkyTran-like ideas for years.
But although the company's literature speaks of SkyTran in the present tense, the idea has yet to get off the ground, literally.
Mike James, Mesa's senior transportation planner, said SkyTran "is an idea on the Internet, but that's about the only place it exists."
Only now, Spellman said, is the company building two prototype vehicles and some sections of rail. It hopes to put enough actual equipment together to erect a test loop of about 1,000 yards. Spellman said Williams Gateway would be an ideal location for the first test run.
James said that probably won't happen.
"We're really focusing in on what the federal government would call proven technologies," James said.
And as far as personal transportation, he said, "We as a city already have a good personal transportation system in our road network."
As Mike James says, Skytran is an idea that only exists only as a concept on the internet... and it is likely to stay that way. If you look carefully at the slick, computer-generated pictures of Skytran, you will notice that there is no accommodation for people with disabilities. The elevated guideway and the thousands of stations required for a regional system would create visual pollution that would face tremendous environmental opposition, particularly in historic neighborhoods and scenic areas. For those regulatory reasons and many others, Skytran has a nearly zero chance of being chosen as a preferred mode of public transport in any city.
Skytran is featured in this video titled "Phoenix light rail is Trash!"... keep it klassy PRT guys!
More posts about Skytran invading other cities and towns at the Dump Mark Olson blog.
More news about the ongoing, worldwide pod boondoggle:
BAA is also due next month to launch a system of robotic cars, or a Personal Rapid Transit system, to ferry passengers between the T5 Business passengers’ car park and the terminal without having to wait for a shuttle bus.
It is anticipated that the system will go fully live this summer, with the 21 pod vehicles operating 22 hours a day.
"It is anticipated"? Why aren't they more certain? A little history may help explain why they only anticipate going public...
Before Heathrow, the ULTra folks said they were ready to go six years ago - "The system was to have started carrying passengers at Cardiff Bay in 2005".
July 23, 2004: "the system could be in place at Heathrow by 2006"
21 October 2008: "... we are very much looking forward to launching this to passengers in 2009."
2010 (broken link, screenshot HERE): "Testing of the PRT System is continuing and, with all installation and communications challenges now resolved, we anticipate commencing passenger services in late Spring 2010.""
September 14, 2010: "We may find that we are allowed to gradually move to full operation unannounced later this summer."
This lack of certainty has not helped the credibility of the as-yet unproved pod "system" as PRT promoter Steve Raney explains in this video:
Meanwhile, here in Minnesota, there's an effort to get legislative support for the proposed PRT project in Coon Rapids. The session is scheduled to end in May... just before the new launch date. Hmmmmmmmm.....
Recent news about the ongoing, worldwide pod boondoggle:
One of the many unfounded claims of Personal Rapid Transit promoters is that PRT can pay for itself. Here's what then-Senator Michele Bachmann told Minnesota Public Radio:
Supporters range from Minneapolis City Council member Dean Zimmerman, a Green Party member, to Republican Sen. Michelle Bachmann of Stillwater. Bachmann says personal rapid transit, like many political issues, creates strange bedfellows.
"People on the right, people on the left, we have the common goal of moving people with transit, but doing it in the most cost-effective manner, in fact, in a manner that may end up costing no government subsidy, it may end up paying for itself," she says.
Taxi 2000 says PRT could be paid for by fares and private investors.
At the MnDOT PRT workshop last year (PDF), former Minneapolis Councilman Dean Zimmermann made a similar claim:
In terms of cost, the legislature is willing to spend all kinds of costs to subsidize all these kinds of transportation. No one is dif-ferentiating between capital cost and operat-ing cost … Every single vendor in here will tell you if we build this system, it will pay back its cost with revenue. Light rail takes $10 million a year of public subsidy. The bus system, 25 percent paid for by users, and let’s not even go into the automobile, the most heavily subsidized transportation system. PRT is the only system mentioned that will pay for itself in terms of operating cost.
I saw Dean Zimmermann tabling for the Citizens for Personal Rapid Transit (CPR) at the 6th Annual Sustainable Communities Conference in downtown Minneapolis, so I was able to ask him to explain how PRT could pay for itself:
Of course, transit systems cannot survive without subsidies, But, in these tough fiscal times, it is a claim that cash-strapped citizens and public officials may want to hear. This comment on a forum explains why subsidy-free PRT is a fantasy:
First, you say that PRT will pay for itself. This is preposterous. You have a system that has low volume and will need extremely sophisticated infrastructure. There is no way, theoretically, that you can have such a system that will pay for itself.
Second, no genuine PRT system has been built anywhere ever. So you have no proof to back up your argument there.
Third, every time they try building a PRT system, they go to local governments to ask for money. So that's just proof of more fantasizing on your part.
Finally, ALL TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS COST MONEY. It's just that systems such as light rail are the very systems that Detroit grew up around. So when we talk about light rail, it is a serious investment with proven gains that works in other cities -- and has worked here before. That is why light rail is credible, and why such untried, never-implemented systems as PRT are a joke.
Also interesting is that the CPRT continues to make the creepy and bogus claim that people don't like riding with "strangers" (click on the picture to make it bigger):
Recent news about the ongoing, worldwide pod boondoggle:
Pardon the awful Google translation, but you'll get the idea from this article from March 23rd about a pod project in The Netherlands:
Monorail plan finally abandoned
Almelo - Almelo The cooperation of the municipality to develop a monorail stop is put in 2012.
The mayor and aldermen find the current financial position of Almelo, a good reason to keep up with it.
All mid-nineties, the Alderman Anthon Sjoers the futuristic plan for a monorail in Almelo.
Almelo joined a European project that was investigating realization. Almelo was one of the cities where such a monorail could be built.
Against the project was always much resistance.
Also present in the college whose names VVD thought it was nothing.
According to the college games except the financial situation of the municipality, including "changing insights into the future role and functions of the municipality a role in the decision now to stop. Over the years evolved into a so-called PRT monorail system, Personal Rapid Transportation. This system consisted of a concrete runway at several meters high, which was closed by an automated cart system would go away.
In the first versions of the Almelo Downtown Plan was also flirting with the monorail. although it never outgrew the status of studies project.
The actual investigation of the PRT is therefore already in the college in 2006. Since then kept the town active in seeking external sources of funds and to create support for the system in town. The latter did not really succeed.
Also by the college a "wait and see attitude" of the Twente Region and the Ministry of Transport said. The past two years the city has spent 1,800 euros to the PRT project.
Until 2012, another 4,000 euros needed to build the ongoing cooperation. There were 23,500 euros from a contribution from the Twente region. The rest of the money, another 18,500 euros, the municipality spend raising and improving the existing bus stops.
As always, the pod hucksters wowed the suckers with a CGI video:
Recent news about the ongoing, worldwide pod boondoggle:
